# (slow) Internet over Ham Radio; AI over HF (2024-03-09)

**URL:** <https://pluralist.net/t/slow-internet-over-ham-radio-ai-over-hf-2024-03-09/100>\
**Category:** breadcrumbs\
**Tags:** amateur-radio, winlink, starlink\
**Created:** [March 9, 2024, 5:00am UTC](https://pluralist.net/t/slow-internet-over-ham-radio-ai-over-hf-2024-03-09/100 "2024-03-09T05:00:00Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![delyan](https://pluralist.net/user_avatar/pluralist.net/delyan/32/245_2.png) [@delyan](https://pluralist.net/u/delyan)\
**Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 5:00am UTC](https://pluralist.net/t/slow-internet-over-ham-radio-ai-over-hf-2024-03-09/100/1 "2024-03-09T05:00:00Z")

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Today we are researching the possibility of using some form of Internet over Ham Radio.

Starlink is great! It did not work in the forest – tree cover was great (can never be too much when camping).

Can we use (slow) Internet over HF radio?

What options do we have?

## Protocol

- **WSJT** and **WSPR** are special digital weak signal modes developed by ham radio’s own Nobel laureate, Joe Taylor, K1JT. WSJT (Weak Signal - Joe Taylor) mode provides several modes optimized for meteor scatter, troposcatter, or EME (Earth - Moon - Earth, moonbounce) communication. (source: [http://www.arrl.org/weak-signal-modes](http://www.arrl.org/weak-signal-modes))
- [Email over HF with Winlink](https://hamradioprep.com/winlink/) could work - “Winlink uses a worldwide HF system that can be used nearly anywhere in the world. By connecting a single sideband (SSB) radio to a computer with dedicated software and a modem interface, Winlink email messages can be sent throughout the system for endpoint delivery.”
- [AX.25 Packet Radio (over HF preferably)](https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/tzg4tu/packet_radio_is_this_still_a_thing/)

## Radio

- [The Easiest Radio for FT8 | Temporarily Offline Ham Radio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF9BWZ1EqHM) claims [Xiegu G106 SDR HF Transceiver](https://www.radioddity.com/products/xiegu-g106) to be a good machine for WSJT along with the [DE-19](https://www.radioddity.com/products/xiegu-de-19).
  - another review: [An in-depth review of the Xiegu G106 QRP HF transceiver | Q R P e r](https://qrper.com/2023/06/an-in-depth-review-of-the-xiegu-g106-qrp-hf-transceiver/) (we love this photo of it)  
 ![image](https://pluralist.net/uploads/default/original/1X/cdbdc87739f683214df9c51c3d8280ab237422b0.jpeg)
  - to summarize: “go with something more akin to the [Yaesu FT-818ND](https://qrper.com/2022/11/the-enduring-yaesu-ft-817-and-ft-818-series-transceivers/) (if you want to go QRP), the Yaesu FT-891, or the Icom IC-7300. All of these radios offer better overall receiver performance and inherent quality”
    - **Yaesu FT-818ND** : [The enduring Yaesu FT-817 and FT-818 series transceivers | Q R P e r](https://qrper.com/2022/11/the-enduring-yaesu-ft-817-and-ft-818-series-transceivers/)
    - **Yaesu FT-891** : [Yaesu FT-891 Yaesu FT-891 HF/50MHz All Mode Mobile Transceivers | DX Engineering](https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/ysu-ft-891)
    - **Icom IC-7300** : [IC-7300 | Products | Icom America.](https://www.icomamerica.com/lineup/products/IC-7300/)
      - [https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/syse6u/7300\_or\_qrp\_setup/](https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/syse6u/7300_or_qrp_setup/)

## Antennae

- portable HF antenna by OH8STN: [https://oh8stn.org/blog/2023/02/03/man-portable-hf-antenna-strategy/](https://oh8stn.org/blog/2023/02/03/man-portable-hf-antenna-strategy/)

* * *

# Finally

Maybe this is it: [Icom IC-7300 HF Radio Portable Operations - HF Radio Email](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjF0SqfqQlQ)

- Icom IC-7300
- Winlink
- P4dragon DR-7400
- powersystems QRP Ranger - [https://portableuniversalpower.com/store/QRP-Ranger-p268399315](https://portableuniversalpower.com/store/QRP-Ranger-p268399315)
- and more: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbqWdlNSJXE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbqWdlNSJXE)

* * *

# WinLink Activity

| Winlink Message Activity (Worldwide) | Feb 2024 | Mar 2024 |
| --- | --- | --- |
| HF Activity | | |
| Pactor 1 | 0 | 0 |
| Pactor 2 | 88 | 29 |
| Pactor 3 | 884 | 392 |
| Pactor 4 | 3,465 | 903 |
| Robust Packet | 34 | 14 |
| ARDOP 200 | 0 | 0 |
| ARDOP 500 | 97 | 42 |
| ARDOP 1000 | 0 | 0 |
| ARDOP 2000 | 67 | 35 |
| VARA | 10,197 | 4,030 |
| VARA 500 | 5,108 | 1,571 |
| VARA 2750 | 5,966 | 2,398 |
| Total Connections | 25,906 | 9,414 |
| Total Messages Received | 31,396 | 9,295 |
| Total Messages Sent | 37,584 | 11,081 |
| Message Size Accumulation | 364,542 KB | 110,145 KB |
| Average Message Size | 5,285 Bytes | 5,406 Bytes |
| FM Activity | | |
| ARDOP 2000 FM | 0 | 0 |
| VARA FM | 11,544 | 3,757 |
| VARA FM WIDE | 25,636 | 8,498 |
| Packet Activity | | |
| Messages Received | 8,460 | 2,729 |
| Messages Sent | 10,029 | 3,133 |
| APRS Gateway Activity | | |
| Messages Received | 149 | 26 |
| Messages Sent | 114 | 7 |
| WebMail Activity | | |
| Messages Received | 6,445 | 2,314 |
| Messages Sent | 888 | 1,734 |
| Total Message Activity | 95,065 | 30,319 |

Source: [Live System Information | Winlink Global Radio Email](https://www.winlink.org/RMSChannels)

- [VARAHF V2750 | Winlink Global Radio Email](https://www.winlink.org/content/varahf_v2750)

* * *

## Protocols and their speed

| Protocol | Approximate Speed (bps) |
| --- | --- |
| PACTOR I | 200 |
| PACTOR II | 600 |
| PACTOR III | 1800 |
| PACTOR IV | 5500 |
| WINMOR | 500 to 1600 |
| ARDOP | 200 to 2400 |
| VARA HF | 500 to 7100 (with a premium license) |

* * *

Transmission speeds (as per ChatGPT 4 – **may be inaccurate** )

| Mode | Description | Speed (CPS) |
| --- | --- | --- |
| FT-8 | Designed for weak signal HF/VHF digital communications; emphasizes speed over message length. | 15 CPS |
| JT65 | Optimized for extremely weak signal conditions; used primarily for EME (moonbounce) and HF. | ~1 CPS |
| JT9 | Similar to JT65 but with narrower bandwidth, making it suitable for LF, MF, and HF bands. | ~1 CPS |
| JT4 | Intended for EME on the VHF/UHF bands with a variety of tone spacings to accommodate different needs. | ~1 CPS |
| WSPR | (Weak Signal Propagation Reporter) Designed for sending and receiving low-power transmissions to test propagation paths. | ~0.14 CPS |
| Q65 | Designed to enhance communication on the HF bands and for EME, with capabilities for very weak signals. | Depends on configuration |
| FT4 | Faster than FT-8 and used for radio contesting, offering quick turnaround for rapid contacts. | 23 CPS |

| Mode | Description | Speed (CPS) |
| --- | --- | --- |
| PSK31 | A digital mode for keyboard-to-keyboard communication, known for its efficiency and low bandwidth. | ~31 CPS |
| RTTY | (Radioteletype) One of the oldest data modes, using a 5-bit Baudot code, commonly used in contests. | 60-100 CPS (170 Hz shift) |
| Olivia | A digital mode that is highly configurable and robust under varying conditions, with error correction. | Varies with configuration |
| Contestia | Similar to Olivia, but with different configurations optimized for contesting scenarios. | Varies with configuration |
| Feld Hell | A mode that uses a method called Hellschreiber, sending text as a series of vertical lines for visual decoding. | ~17 CPS |
| MFSK | (Multiple Frequency Shift-Keying) Offers various configurations, known for its robustness and ability to carry images (MFSK16, MFSK32, etc.). | Varies with configuration |
| Thor | A family of error-correcting modes similar to PSK but with a different waveform, offering robustness. | Varies with configuration |
| Throb | A slow mode designed for weak signal work, transmitting a single tone that throbs in pitch. | ~4 CPS |

* * *

More links

- Icom IC-750 - [POTA Field Report: One antenna and two transceivers at South Mountains State Park (K-2753) | Q R P e r](https://qrper.com/2020/11/pota-field-report-one-antenna-and-two-transceivers-at-south-mountains-state-park-k-2753/)
- [https://winlink.org/sites/default/files/download/wl2k\_faq\_20230311.pdf](https://winlink.org/sites/default/files/download/wl2k_faq_20230311.pdf)
- [https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/uhdynv/question\_about\_ft8\_free\_text/](https://www.reddit.com/r/amateurradio/comments/uhdynv/question_about_ft8_free_text/)
- PSK31 vs JS8Call?
  - [JS8Call: Leave a Message! – Off Grid Ham Radio OH8STN](https://oh8stn.org/blog/2018/10/27/js8call-leave-a-message/)
  - [https://js8call.com/faq/](https://js8call.com/faq/)
    - JS8Call is 10-20 WPM

- [PSK31](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSK31)’s symbol rate of 31.25 Hz was chosen because a normal typing speed of about 50 words per minute requires a bit rate of about 32 bits per second
- A more verbose ChatGPT message of 1024 characters would take over 4 minutes to transfer ☹

* * *

What if we used pure Voice ChatGPT over FM/SSB? So this would be AI over Ham Radio?

- your home radio listens on 3.xxMhz
- you dial into this frequency and ask it a question
- chatGPT answers back

AI over HF

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![delyan](https://pluralist.net/user_avatar/pluralist.net/delyan/32/245_2.png) [@delyan](https://pluralist.net/u/delyan)\
**Post date:** [March 9, 2024, 9:35am UTC](https://pluralist.net/t/slow-internet-over-ham-radio-ai-over-hf-2024-03-09/100/2 "2024-03-09T09:35:33Z")

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here is a reply. Would this be sent to you? Via email? Let’s try